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Studying in the US: Grading Grades
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In part 24 of our Foreign Student Series, we discuss evaluation systems at colleges and universities. Transcript of radio broadcast:
04 March 2009
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This is the VOA Special English Education Report. This
week in our Foreign Student Series the subject is grades.
Most American colleges and universities use
the grading system of A, B, C, D and F. An A is worth four points, a B three
points, a C two points and a D one point. Getting a grade like a B-plus or a
C-minus adds or subtracts a few tenths of a point. An F is a failing grade
worth zero toward a student's grade point average.
 | Students at Evergreen State College in Washington state
| A small number of colleges -- perhaps about
twenty nationally -- reject the traditional grading system. The Evergreen State
College, for example, was established in nineteen sixty-seven and has never
used letter or number grades. Evergreen State
is a public four-year college in the northwestern city of Olympia,
Washington. It has more than four thousand students, including twenty-six
international students currently.
Evergreen State is organized into programs
taught by teams of professors. Each program brings together different subjects
and extends in length over two or three quarters. Students are required to do a
major research project at the end of each program.
The professors write detailed
evaluations of the students. These are combined with evaluations written by the
students themselves. Students also meet with their professors to discuss their
work.
The
director of admissions, Doug Scrima, says employers and graduate
schools like these evaluations, called narratives. He says they show more about
the quality of students' work than traditional grades do.
Most
teachers would probably agree that traditional grades are sometimes unfair. But
professors at big schools say there is not enough time to write evaluations for
each student in large classes. Some classes have hundreds of students.
Alverno
College in Milwaukee,
Wisconsin, is a small women's school that does not use grades. Kathleen O'Brien
is the chief academic officer. She says letter grades do not effectively document
learning or provide good direction to students. She says even at big schools
there are classes small enough to give evaluations. But she says the American
university system is not organized to accept this kind of change.
We will talk more about
grades next week. But first, let us know how you feel about grades. You can
submit comments on this story and find earlier reports in our Foreign Student
Series at voaspecialenglish.com.
And
that's the VOA Special English Education Report, written by Nancy Steinbach.
I'm Steve Ember.
Comments:
1. Would more specific mark make the system better?
I think letter grading system is a bit rough. For e.g., two students both got A, but if they use mark system, say one of them got 91 points, the other got 85, we can see big difference using the latter way of grading, which is good and fair for the better student. So I think it would be better if it is more specific,like mark system in China.100 is the full mark,60 means passing.The evaluation system sounds time consuming,which is not infeasible for big schools.
Submitted by: kongguang8305 (China)
03-30-2009 - 04:51:56
2. my opinion on Grade System
As a jugdement on students' study,grade system has both advantage and disadvantage.Absolutely,it can judge a student's study as a number value,in some kind of extent.But teachers' or professors' evaluation is subjective .So, it's unfair.
Submitted by: wesidge peng (China)
03-26-2009 - 12:52:15
3.
IWANT TO LEARN ENGLISH ASMUCH AS POSSIBLE
Submitted by: HARES (afghanistan)
03-25-2009 - 10:59:07
4. university
do all well known university accept evaluation for students to enter
Submitted by: tlf (singapore)
03-23-2009 - 09:48:35
5. Special English
Wonderrfullll!!!!
Submitted by: Angel (Indonesia)
03-16-2009 - 15:41:13
6. There
It was very useful subject. In my opinion, it is very hard to evaluate every students at the big colleges. Professors do not only grade but also reaserch their own field and teach students. I think that Alverno College is just a kind of Utopias.
Submitted by: Ju Eon Kim (South Korea)
03-16-2009 - 13:06:02
7. Core English
English,international language, is very importian for communecation and for working for companies. Learning English via VOA Special English, I improve: listening, reading, vocabularies, and pronounciation.
Submitted by: bunly pok (cambodia)
03-16-2009 - 03:41:39
8. Hi all
hi all. i like this web site. i wanna study abroad and i would like to have informstion in detail about studying abroad and some of the largest universities in USA.
Submitted by: odnoo (Ulaanbaatar,Mongolia)
03-15-2009 - 11:59:12
9. Grades
Hi! People! I am from Brazil, and here we use numbers to represent the grades: 1 to 10 - The students have to get at least a 6, if they do not get this grade - they have to do a second test to get a six or a higher grade.
I liked the Alverno College in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, system, but how they said, it is a small school for women. In a big school I think it can be difficult this kind of evaluation. In fact, here in Brazil, some private schools do the same thing like Alverno College.
Submitted by: Marco (Brazil)
03-13-2009 - 12:54:23
10. what about ur future?
now we star to discuss about our study?
i am a student that study at hight school at grade 10.
so i nearly to finish my study and i want to study in university of subject bussiness . and i want to ak all of you that how can we be a good bussiness learner and in the futuer how can we be a bussiness man as well as bullgate. at university i want to study abrod taht is in usa. so ow can i get the shcolaship. if all of u have alot of experince can u give advice to me?
i allway waitting for ur reply and to sorry about my mistake that happen .
so i have to say thank you so much thank.
from me kaven.
Submitted by: kaven (cambodia)
03-12-2009 - 06:59:08
11. Grades in Viet Nam.
In Viet Nam's universities, some professors are using the same way as Evergreen State College' professors. But the projects were giving at the beginning of each subject. During the learning time, students were devided into some groups included 8 to 10 students and they join together to finish the project. The project's result will become student's grade. Besides, the professors also watch students learning in class and in group ( about their study attitude, willingness, activities, creative... ), so they will have the general view of their students. The Total Grade is combied of project's result and also the professor's personal evaluation about each student. And I think this is the best evaluation system.
Submitted by: Hải Ngô (Việt Nam)
03-11-2009 - 16:54:02
12. Point/Grade is simplest but kill genius
we always use point/grade to evaluate the ability of student even do decide whether he/she could enter the university. it's very unfair
Submitted by: Leo (China)
03-11-2009 - 13:56:13
13. VOA special English
Excellence !!
Submitted by: Nguyen Trung Son (Viet Nam)
03-11-2009 - 08:20:23
14. Our grade system
Few years ago, our country uses a different grade system, which is counts, 5, 4, 3, 2. 5 point is highest worth, 2 point says worst. Now, uses new grade system such as USA. Sometimes, it seams very difficult to give a point to students by behalf of teachers.
Submitted by: Bya (Mongolia)
03-11-2009 - 06:19:01
15. TOEFL Grades
Please can you talk about the TOEFL Grade system in iBT TOEFL and about GRE Grades System it is important for foreign students.
Thank you very much
Submitted by: Ahmed (Iraq)
03-10-2009 - 17:27:11
16. permission
I do not find a good way to travel to america to get higher degree in english department i always dream off there coz it is really well-done about how students understand and learn american accent .i can not say any important words in my kurdish dictionary that deserves for your improving and encouraging ours , only i say long live America.
Take care,
aram
senior students
english department
kurdistan-iraq
Submitted by: aram (iraq)
03-10-2009 - 15:36:31
17. New listener
This is Yahya Salim from Pakistan. I would like to join the elite class of listeners of VOA.
Submitted by: Yahya Salim (pakistan)
03-10-2009 - 14:57:37
18. Studying agriculture in USA
Regarding comment # 5 to the student from Afghanistan that wants to study plant protection in the USA. The best possibilities are state universities in agricultural states--such as Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas. The best thing to do is to go to the website of these universities and look for agricultural department. Now is too late for 2009 admission. Also need to pass TOEFL and maybe GRE tests plus have the money which can be more than $30,000. Maybe a better choice would be to study in China. One good university in China for agriculture is Northwest A & F University. But, of course, you need to know the Chinese language.
Submitted by: John Martin (USA)
03-10-2009 - 03:18:28
19. Funny
At first, I thought that the traditional grades were the best way to evaluate student's knowledge. It will be the principle of learning harder for good grade. But my mind has changed since I learning in the U.S. The evaluations are very useful to fix the students' missing knowledge. It made me a little fun even though I don't know :D. Funny!!?
Submitted by: Nguyễn Lợi (Vietnam)
03-10-2009 - 03:03:28
20.
For the situation of china's education system currently, it is rather better uses grading (knowing as scores or ranking)system to keep us work hard and from which can be refered as the intelligence of individual.
While for the US, it is better to have this new method of this experimental evaluation. But for the lacking of enough teaching resources and financial supporting for this good idea may be the biggest obstruction for its widely used.
And thanks for the great program provided by VOA special English, it is really helpful for ESL beings.
Submitted by: fOx (i also come from Great China)
03-09-2009 - 17:29:12
21. Can we learn to mixed it up
I agree about "even at big schools there are classes small enough to give evaluations. But the university system is not organized to accept this kind of change" If u open the wide mind and fill more responsible to the students, u can create the great future to the kids and they will be the fast learner. Even the genius, they used to get F!!!!
Anyway, thank you very much for VOS. You are the best website I have ever seen.
Submitted by: Rajchanok (Thailand)
03-09-2009 - 16:47:42
22. Grade system is useful
Grade system is a very useful method to evaluate student though sometimes, for some students, it maybe not the best one.
In China, most schools use score system (100) which is similar to the grade system, and we take 85+ as A in grade system.
In my opinion, it is better to combine grade system with narrative system. For example, math course is easier to be graded, and for language course, it is better to use narrative system. But, if it is a large class, it is really add much more work for teachers, and therefore it is difficult to do so.
I always read along with VOA programs. Thank you so much. Your voices are so attracting.
Submitted by: Tracy Liu (China)
03-09-2009 - 16:32:25
23. i like
i like this web side but i would like watch more videos.
Submitted by: andres (mexico)
03-08-2009 - 23:45:27
24. Grading System
Grading system can make both stregth and weakness to the students. So we should not prefere to traditional grading system and the best effective way for the school to measure and evaluate the students' acchievements is to make them do comprehensive tests or exams in all round.
So that the teachers can decide whether the results are good or not. It can help the students prepare their best because they have to show or do how much they can and they have known and understood.
Submitted by: Alfred Ngala Yoyin (Myanmar ( Chin))
03-08-2009 - 17:02:09
25. international trad
It is zmazing to find such a usefull website.
I will spend much time to learn english from it when I am free.
Submitted by: cathy (china)
03-08-2009 - 07:07:44
26. grade
Academic achievements should not judged only by traditional grade system. Evaluations and suggestions from teachers can help students know themselves better and make both learning and teaching more flexible and enjoyable.
Submitted by: carolina (China)
03-07-2009 - 23:04:40
27. Want to get master degree in US
I am student of facutly of agricutlure , in Kabul univeristy . By the end of 2009 I am going to graducate from dept of Plant Protection.
I would like to continue my higher education in the plant protection , But I don't know what to do .
If sb could guide me please , that would be your kind.
regards,
Submitted by: Sayednaim (Afghanistan)
03-07-2009 - 11:39:27
28. I would like my son study in US
I have been more than 20 years' listener of VOA, my son is a 2nd year college student in JiLin University in China, major Geophysics. I hope to know some US colleges for this specialty
Submitted by: Wang Shuzhi (P.R.C.)
03-07-2009 - 08:21:35
29. Grade
I think grade is not a big deal, teachers should evaluate students by how much they learn and their Researches
Submitted by: Bryar (Kurdistan Region of Iraq)
03-07-2009 - 02:02:39
30. view
Now I have ended the school days.I was serious about the grade too much before.So that when I stepped into the society,I couldn't deal with the work and life very well.
Submitted by: John (China)
03-06-2009 - 22:04:47
31.
In my opion, scores is a part of your studying. Teachers can mix some ways to evaluate students' scores. Don't need to rely on exam
Submitted by: shooting star (Viet Nam)
03-06-2009 - 17:36:52
32. American education
American education has been known as the best in the world. I hope to be there someday.
Keep learning foreign languages...
Welcome you to www.myngle.com where you can find more language online courses.
Submitted by: Nam Chuong (Vietnam)
03-06-2009 - 17:35:39
33. fund
hi
please asnswer to me how i can know whict teacher for exampel in texas university has found or in another university in us?
Submitted by: mohsen (iran)
03-06-2009 - 15:15:04
34. mathematics
i want to be one of you student over there.
Submitted by: umeano chinedu peter (nigeria)
03-06-2009 - 13:07:56
35. Eduction is very important
Education is very important for us. I like learning foreing language. VOA is helping us. Your site is wonderful. İt hasn't bad picture, bad word, bad opinion. Your site is very clear, net. I want to one thing from you. Please add different short video (slowly speak, like child speak)
Submitted by: Fatih K.pınar (Türkiye)
03-06-2009 - 10:00:17
36. Educational studies
This program is very good to students who want to improve English language. Becasue its avaliable to find just go into VOA web here we can learn immediate as we want. We should appreciate to Magager and all staffs that they are working to preparing their stories. This program help me improve English more than in the past that make me very happy. I wish this programs will give us more knowledge in the future. Thank you
Submitted by: Raweewat Rattanakoses (Thailand)
03-06-2009 - 06:50:25
37. grade
In my opinion, grade system is an important way to evaluate student's abilities nowadays in universities and colleges. In my own country, all universities and colleges still apply this evaluation system. The grade can't certainly show total student's abilities but it reflects their capabilities in anyway. For instance, a student got alot of high marks. It shows that he or she understood the problems of the subjects. And I think a major research project at the end of each subject is very essential. It reflect the student's ability that how well he can put his theory into practice. So the best way to evaluate students' abilities is to combine two ways: grades and aresearch projects.
Submitted by: khanhtran (vietnam)
03-06-2009 - 05:20:43
38. grading system
I think the traditional grading system is appropriate particularly in large Universities and Colleges. However, a communication between professor and each student is a good idea. It may help to boost students confidence and to stay focus on class.
Submitted by: ej (philippines)
03-06-2009 - 04:24:58
39. grades
in VietNam, we use traditional grades to measure students' cleverness. beside , some universities are using the grading system of A, B, C, D and F. It's difficult to get a A.
Submitted by: mai vinh (viet nam)
03-06-2009 - 02:26:31
40. berfict
Now my english better than befor,thank you
Submitted by: hajaj (k.s.a)
03-05-2009 - 20:00:11
41. U R Ze Only Best+Free Site Online
Hey Sirs
It is Cool for a foriegner Like me!
Thnx a lot!
Suggestion:If you also teache us about American Expressions(Like ' I wanna go man" in Hiphop Expressions)
Submitted by: Ephraim Sahle Selassie (Ethiopia)
03-05-2009 - 17:16:36
42. study english
i think very good
Submitted by: nhat (vietnam)
03-05-2009 - 17:04:59
43.
Now, my Vinh university are changing traditional grades. It makes students become more embarrassed. They don't be satisfied.But I think letter grades are very good. Students have to study themselves much more, teachers only guide them.But it is too early to know that letter grades are better than traditional grades.
Submitted by: hothiphuong (VietNam)
03-05-2009 - 16:46:40
44.
i belive that grade is just a way to show his ability.
First we should think what the goal of education goes for .
Submitted by: Kenneth ()
03-05-2009 - 16:00:38
45. grade
i think evaluation of students is better sistem but of course there can be difficults because of time. for me to garade students are not important becouse the ame of schouls should be to give essential informations that wiil help students
Submitted by: Konul Ahmedova (Azerbaijan)
03-05-2009 - 13:38:42
46. English
It is vey nice information.
VOA is the only website that I can get a lot of information.
Submitted by: Jung You Kyeong (South Korea)
03-05-2009 - 10:21:15
47.
I personally feel that letter grades restrict students intelligence and their general level from lateral!
Submitted by: Sanix (China)
03-05-2009 - 09:58:44
48. Grades vs. narrative evaluation
In Hungary, the elementary schools solely use narrative evaluation in the first 4 classes. Under my observations, it isn't unambiguous for common parents. In my opinion, the narrative evaluation is in good order only at elite schools.
Submitted by: Szövetség Vácért (Hungary)
03-05-2009 - 08:52:07
49.
My country, the grading system is 1 to 10. Eigh, nine, ten are very good. Below 6.5 up to 8 is good. 5 up to 6.5 is faire. Under 5 is a failing grade.
Submitted by: Hang (VietNam)
03-05-2009 - 08:35:51
50. hi
goooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
Submitted by: ahmad (afghanistan)
03-05-2009 - 08:11:31
51. mechanic
i am a chinese. i support professor evaluation. in our country exam are only way to evaluate the student's study. but he exam subject always same as the year before. so we just recite the exam of year before, we can get a pretty scores. it do not promote the students do their best in study, on contrast, the just use one or weo days before the exam to recite the subjects.
Submitted by: humphrey (china)
03-05-2009 - 06:55:08
52. Re: Grade system
for some subjects, it's easy to get A or B, others are more difficulty to get A or B.(such as Tax course) Besides, same subject for different teacher teaching, you may get different grade. sometimes it's just unfair.
Submitted by: tammy Liu (China)
03-05-2009 - 06:39:59
53. Grades System
Hello! Mr. Steve and Ms. Nancy .
This is Manjunath!
I am regular listener of all your programs in special english.
As an Math teacher(School level) in N.Eastern part of India but actually hailing from Tamil nadu (South India).
"In our schools recently board has introduced grading system. Its for the first time that we follow .
What I found is that very often evaluation by atleast three persons will be the average securing mark of the individual. But what a grading system tries to say is there will be atleast 5 to 10 marks difference in the evaluation.
for example Jack secured marks in math evaluated by three persons.
1st 55
2nd 57
3rd 55
then average will be 55.666...
but in case of grade it becomes 51 to 59 as B2 grade.
This i agree completely with the whole grading system because evaluation will not be done by three persons instead one person only it saves time and won't be any problem with awarding the marks.
Thank You!
Submitted by: Manjunath G (India)
03-05-2009 - 06:02:34
54. grades
grade can't examine what is student's knowledge
Submitted by: nivetha (india)
03-05-2009 - 04:53:46
55. Learning English
Study English with VOA special English
Submitted by: nguyen thi hong chinh (viet nam)
03-05-2009 - 02:24:22
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