VOA – CONNECT
EPISODE 127
AIR DATE 06 19 2020
TRANSCRIPT
OPEN ((VO/NAT))
((Banner))
Talking About Guns
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
There's this really simplistic way of thinking about guns
often, which is people are anti-gun or they're pro-gun.
We like to imagine that this is a simple phenomenon in the
culture that you own a gun. And so, you have all of these
different attitudes and you must have these different ideas.
And that just isn't true.
((Animation Transition))
((Banner))
Practicing Nonviolence
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
We learn to develop patience by restraining our reactivity in
anger. So, if we learned to do that internally, then we can
learn not to respond to violence.
((Animation Transition))
((Banner))
Dancing Alone Together
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
So, we’re settling for the screen and now we’re trying to, you
know, blow up that screen with energy and excitement.
((Open Animation))
BLOCK A
((Animated Banner with Music:
Americans and Guns
Differing Perspectives))
((PKG)) GUN CARRYING PROFESSOR
((Banner: Finding Common Ground))
((Reporter/Camera: Deepak Dobhal))
((Map: Ashland, Wisconsin))
((Main character: 1 female))
((Sub characters: 2 females; 2 males))
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
My views on guns are complicated. I recognize how
powerful and potentially destructive they are. I've had family
members killed, self-inflicted, by suicide.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
But I also am a gun owner. We own five or six guns, mostly
rifles, shotgun hunting rifles, but we also have a handgun in
our gun safe. On the other hand, I know the research on
gun ownership. The likelihood of victimization is first and
foremost rooted in the home. You're much more likely to
harm yourself or others with a gun than you are to ever use
one in self-defense.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
We are going to the gun range in town. And this is the place
where a couple years ago I was on the trap team.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
I met someone in town who shoots guns. Sent him a
message to see if he was free and he is. So, he's meeting
us there.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud & Man))
I can't actually arm at work, so.
Oh, did you come from work?
Yeah. I was up this morning.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
There's this really simplistic way of thinking about guns
often, which is people are anti-gun or they're pro-gun.
We like to imagine that this is a simple phenomenon in the
culture that you own a gun. And so, you have all of these
different attitudes and you must have these different ideas.
And that just isn't true.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Well, I'm always fast though. That's pretty quick.
((NATS))
((Man))
I'm used to firearms. I've been relatively well trained with
them and I've been shooting them all my life. I carry a
concealed weapon permit for both Wisconsin and
Minnesota.
((NATS))
((Man))
I have no issues with whatever the majority of people want to
regulate as long as they don't want to say, I don't have a
right to. If they say, you have a right to, but you have to do
this, yeah, okay, sure, no problem. Guns are as dangerous
as cars. I would be fine with regulating them like a car. You
have a license, you have training, you have to pass a test
and you have to recertify. I personally don't have an issue.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
That's what I agree with. I mean, you know, when I said that
my views on guns are complicated. I think they need to be
harder to get a hold of. I mean, our issue with gun violence
is that guns are so easy for anyone to get a hold of. And the
people who I feel totally comfortable owning guns and
carrying them or whatever, go for it. Good. I want it. I want
to know you're carrying, you know. But not Joe Schmo, who
could just pick one up anywhere.
((NATS))
((Man))
This is a DPMS model AR-10. It currently has a 10-round
magazine in it. It is capable of 30 and 50-round magazines.
((NATS))
((Man))
Safety off. Shot. No, I did hit it.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
The best part was shooting a shotgun. I don't like AR-15s.
Personally, I don't enjoy shooting them. I'm not into long-
range tactical precision shooting. I don't, it's not a hobby of
mine. And I also, you know, I have a lot of mixed feelings
about even putting an AR-15 on video.
For a lot of people who have experienced mass shootings,
an AR is an emblem of everything that's wrong with gun
culture. And I totally understand that. We live in different
realities, you know. If you've been affected by gun violence,
your reality about what guns are is one thing. And if you've
never been affected, you can kind of blithely go on with your
life never really confronting that.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Prior to 2008, when I started researching guns, I never really
thought about my vulnerability. I never thought of myself as
someone who needed to carry a gun in self-defense. But as
I started interviewing people and reading books from the
concealed carry worldview and watching media on these
ideas, I started to develop a fear of crime that I'd never had
before. And so, there were times during this research, when
I would wake up in the middle of the night with my heart
racing, thinking I had heard something. And because I didn't
have a gun available, I thought there's nothing I can do. I'm
completely vulnerable and so are my kids and what am I
doing?
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
I can easily identify with people who say that there is a risk
that there could be danger and so, carrying a gun makes
sense. I understand that worldview now in a way that I
never did before. I still think though, with my familiarity with
the research, that the risk is greater that a gun will be used
to harm even the gun-owner than it will ever be used in self-
defense. I have these conflicting views in myself. I would
like not to have to carry a gun in public and I want to do
whatever I can to help transform society, transform our
politics, so that doesn't feel like an inevitability.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Thank you all for coming. I really agree with the sentiments
that were expressed about the importance of talking about
issues like this at the community level. Getting offline, off
social media and having face-to-face conversations is one of
the healthiest things we can do. So tonight, we're going to
talk about gun violence, a topic that is more pressing today
than it was when I started my research.
((NATS))
((Elizabeth Holland, Member, Up North Engaged))
We have to figure out a way to have a dialogue and having
somebody like Angela, who is a scholar in this subject, but
who is also herself is a gun owner, she is kind of a presence
already somewhat in the middle so that both sides have trust
and respect for her and that kind of helps to start the
dialogue.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Guns are unique in their ability to provoke intense emotions
and very little productive conversation across different
perspectives. And this hit home for me. My book had just
come out. And I was back home in Austin and I was at my
sister house and my mom was there. And they started this
debate about concealed carry and they're like screaming at
each other. I'm standing there as someone who just wrote a
book about this and not once did anyone say like, well,
actually is anything we're saying true? Do you know
anything about this topic? And of course, I'm a little sister
and the daughter so, like, probably that had something to do
with it. But they weren't interested at all in the facts. As
soon as I started talking about the facts, they don't even
want to have the conversation anymore.
Who benefits when we won't even talk to each other about
serious issues? When we're afraid, when we're either afraid
of gun owners and guns or that we're afraid that the
government's going to take our guns. Who benefits when
we're afraid of crime? And who is benefiting from this
current political climate where we're losing the ability to talk
to each other about difficult issues? Are we benefiting? The
clear answer is no. And that's something we all have in
common.
I want us to be on one team. Right? Like I'm thinking about
this on the community level. And for me, that's what
democracy is supposed to be about, not get the NRA
[National Rifle Association] involved in our conversation so
we can't even talk or any other lobby organization. I mean,
I'm picking on them because of this topic. But the Gifford’s
gun lobby groups have been as problematic. Bloomberg’s
groups are not helpful. We need to do this work to a great
extent.
((Vox Pop))
Why don't we confiscate cars from crazy people? Why do
we only confiscate guns from crazy people?
Got to be some regulation, stop somewhere.
I own an AR 15. I won't get into why, other than 38 years in
the army. It's what I'm familiar with. It's not at home loaded
right now.
I have a huge fear of somebody has a weapon of mass
destruction.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
When you focus just on the political level or the gun lobby
level, people are very entrenched in their positions. They're
either pro-gun adamantly or they are anti-gun adamantly and
nuance gets completely lost. But when you start to open the
door for conversation and there's a sense of trust that I'm not
here to take away your guns, I just want to talk about are
there possibilities for reducing gun violence, then people
start to reveal their complexity.
((Vox Pop)
And I'm not opposed to what you were talking about…..
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Northland College, Ashland,
Wisconsin))
At the meeting, there was one man who described how he
owns an AR-15 because that gun style came up in the
discussion and he approached me after the meeting and we
talked a bit. And one of the things that came from that
conversation was his willingness to admit that he has
ambivalence about some of our gun policies.
Guns take on a different meaning when you have to kind of
recognize that they're not just one thing. Gun ownership is
about identity. It's about emotions. And that, in this
complexity, we need to be willing to engage rationally so that
we don't just stick with these very tiresome pro-gun, anti-gun
views and instead, get to a better place.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
We could become much worse than we are today or we
could become much better than we are today. I mean, who
would have imagined the 15 years ago, that kindergarteners
would be learning active shooter drills by learning nursery
rhymes about duck and cover from a shooter. It's becoming
so normal already.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Northland College, Ashland,
Wisconsin))
The worst thing that could happen is that we give up any
hope at all that there's change that's possible and we just
naturalize gun violence like we naturalize all kinds of
violence.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Northland College, Ashland,
Wisconsin))
So, the worst fear is that we just assume this is just who we
are as people.
((MUSIC/NATS))
ANIMATED PROMO ((VO/NAT/SOT))
((Banner:
Next time on
Americans and Guns
((SOT))
When I hear about these atrocities, when the mass
shootings, you know, Parkland, Dayton, El Paso, and I hear
the backlash from the media and from politicians, saying that
if we had less guns, if people didn’t have guns, they wouldn’t
be able to do things like this, I have to answer that the
opposite is true.
((Banner:
Next time on
Americans and Guns
TEASE ((VO/NAT))
Coming up…..
((Banner))
A Buddhist View
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The actions we should take is free speech, use the speech
freely. And that's a great thing about our democracy.
There's freedom of assembly. There's freedom of speech.
BREAK ONE
BUMP IN ((ANIM))
BLOCK B
((Banner: Faith))
((PKG)) FAITH / BUDDHISM
((Banner: Buddhism))
((Reporter/Camera: Aaron Fedor))
((Producer: Kathleen McLaughlin))
((Map: Woodstock, New York))
((Main character: 1 male))
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
Buddhism is a way of educating yourself to actually find
happiness and terminate suffering. And it's 2,600 years old
and it has all kinds of educational methodologies including
meditation and scientific investigation of reality. It’s based
on the discovery of Buddha that reality enables human
beings to become truly free of suffering.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The Buddhist approach is best articulated in the world today
by His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. And that is, first of all,
violence is out and war is out and conflict and disagreement
is settled by dialogue.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
This is a graphic novel that I did with several friends. It's
about the Dalai Lama and this is a painting of the Dalai
Lama and behind him, the seat of government in Tibet, the
Potala. And here in '71, I met him. I was on a fellowship
from Harvard and then he says, "Oh, here comes my monk.
Oh, whoops. What happened to his robes?"
World leaders, who have used nonviolence, have been
extraordinarily successful, although the way we are taught
history because of the high level of militarization of our
society, we kind of ignore those examples. But Gandhi was
a nonviolent leader. Martin Luther King was a nonviolent
leader, in modern period. Many in ancient period. Jesus,
you know, was a nonviolent leader.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
So, the main way of learning to do nonviolence for the
individual is to learn to control their own violent reactions,
which doesn't mean become a doormat. It just means learn
to deal with injury directed toward them in a more practical
way. We learned to develop patience by restraining our
reactivity in anger. So, if we learn to do that internally, then
we can learn not to respond to violence. This is the kind of
training, for example, in America today that the police need
to be trained in. How to respond when someone says, "Hey,
pig," or something, not to then hammer them with a stick and
break their head or kill them even.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The best way to overcome anger, it's a long, hard job, I can
say. I had quite a hot temper, kind of still do, but, so it is, I
know how hard it is. But one of the things that helps you
overcome it with experience is you notice that it always
causes more trouble than it solves. Because when I want to
lose my temper, when I want to get all obsessed with
something, I kind of say, "Well, I can do it next life. Well, I
don't want to really do something harmful because it'll come
after me in the future. There'll be no escaping of the
consequences of that doing.” And so, I want to become
enlightened, to be really happy and to help others be happy.
That's what I want and I'm going to do it and that has
changed my life.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The actions we should take is free speech, use speech
freely. And that's a great thing about our democracy.
There's freedom of assembly. There's freedom of speech.
A policeman is supposed to be the servant of the people.
The word for policemen in Sanskrit is Rajapurusha, meaning
the king's man and a king is supposed to be serving the
subjects, not dominating them. This is, we know, there are
different styles of kingship and a good theories of kingship
like ancient Chinese one about the emperor, ancient Indian
one, and actually somewhere in even the idea of a good
Christian king, there's the idea not of divine right but an idea
of the king's job is to work for them. And the president is not
the boss of everybody. He's the servant of everybody.
That's the whole point of being a ruler, is you are the
servant. "Heavy lies the head that wears the crown," said
Henry IV in Shakespeare's play.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
That’s the Buddha's teaching, "What goes around, comes
around." That's what karma means. And it's a biological
teaching. And so, Mother Nature is showing us how we
must stop being violent against her and against each other
and then we'll all be happy. Buddhism wants everyone to be
happy. If you are violent and harm others or yourself or
nature, you will not be happy. Therefore, be nonviolent.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
At this moment, when we are rising up in the United States
of America about the violence committed against the Black
people, it's very important that those who are rising up in
protest remember that violence is what they are against.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
I'm extremely hopeful because in the overall view of history,
nonviolence has always been more powerful than violence.
It's very important not to lose hope and realize that it is your
right as a human to be happy, have a good time, sing some
songs and no one has a right to prevent you from doing that.
And if you keep doing that, sooner or later, other people will
join you in the choir. And that happiness is infectious and
that's the way to win. Joyful protest, joyful resistance, that's
what it is.
((NATS))
TEASE ((VO/NAT))
Coming up…..
((Banner))
Dance in Virtual Space
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I must say the dancers have been energized and excited by
working in this new medium of little squares.
BREAK TWO
BUMP IN ((ANIM))
BLOCK C
((PKG)) COVID / VIRTUAL DANCE
((Banner: The Laptop as Stage))
((Reporter/Producer: Faiza Elmasry))
((Camera: Diane Coburn Burning))
((Editor: Lisa Vohra))
((Map: Washington DC))
((Main characters: 1 female))
((NATS))
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
And I will keep admitting everybody as we go as well, being
mute enough. So, I’ll face you, we start and.....ribs, elbow,
ta ra ta ta, knee knee.
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I’m Diane Coburn Burning, Founder and Artistic Director of
Chamber Dance Project.
((NATS: Diane Coburn Burning))
Cha-cha-chu.
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
Chamber Dance Project is a contemporary ballet company
based in Washington DC and we work entirely with live
music. We’re usually on the stage but of late, we’re also
online virtually a lot.
((NATS: Diane Coburn Burning))
I’d just like to thank all the dancers for being willing to do
this. Alright, Troy, whenever they’re ready.
((NATS))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I think it was Winston Churchill that said, “Don’t waste a
good crisis.” And we’ve been going forward boldly and
positively. We have something that is our mantra, ‘there will
be a beyond.’ But in the meantime, let’s see what we can do
now. Let’s not put off. And so, we’ve embraced this. And I
think to our credit, people have embraced us doing this and
that makes all the difference.
((MUSIC/NATS: Dancing))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I must say the dancers have been energized and excited by
working in this new medium
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
of little squares, on a screen. And, if I sound a bit surprised,
I am. And as one dancer said, “Diane, I’m not so sure, two
months ago or three months ago, we would have been all so
also open for it.” But I think it’s the chance to create, to
move, even though in their household spaces.
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
And also be together. If that sounds strange, I’m sure it is to
them, until you long for it.
((MUSIC/NATS))
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I started Chamber Dance Project upon the conviction that
dance should be a collaboration between dancers and
musicians, playing live on stage and performing together.
Also, that working in smaller spaces, smaller theaters, would
heighten the experience for the audience. And that sharing
the process along the way would also deepen that
experience and understanding before the audience sees the
final ballet.
((NATS: Diane Coburn Burning -- voice only while
Christian is listening))
Try to keep your palms in the same position and switch the
legs. Stay as low as you can to wiggle the arms, hands
down and slide the legs.
((MUSIC/NATS))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
Bill asked, ‘how do you allow your bodies to feel, learn,
memorize this range of motion?’ Anyone want to take that
one?
((Christian Denice, Dancer from California))
We can still see it and we can understand it and feel it. And
I think that’s something that’s so beautiful about this time
where it feels like we’re all kind of dealing with different
amounts of loss and levels of either losing jobs or
opportunities. But, you know, dance is always going to be
rooted in us.
((MUSIC/NATS))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
So, we’re settling for the screen and now we’re trying to, you
know, blow up that screen with energy and excitement. It’s a
way for us to create and connect which is what we’re known
for. So, I think the virtual aspect will be part of something we
do going forward. Do we want to be back on stage? You
bet. And we will be.
((MUSIC/NATS: Christian Dancing))
CLOSING ((ANIM))
voanews.com/connect
BREAK THREE
BUMP IN ((ANIM))
SHOW ENDS
EPISODE 127
AIR DATE 06 19 2020
TRANSCRIPT
OPEN ((VO/NAT))
((Banner))
Talking About Guns
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
There's this really simplistic way of thinking about guns
often, which is people are anti-gun or they're pro-gun.
We like to imagine that this is a simple phenomenon in the
culture that you own a gun. And so, you have all of these
different attitudes and you must have these different ideas.
And that just isn't true.
((Animation Transition))
((Banner))
Practicing Nonviolence
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
We learn to develop patience by restraining our reactivity in
anger. So, if we learned to do that internally, then we can
learn not to respond to violence.
((Animation Transition))
((Banner))
Dancing Alone Together
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
So, we’re settling for the screen and now we’re trying to, you
know, blow up that screen with energy and excitement.
((Open Animation))
BLOCK A
((Animated Banner with Music:
Americans and Guns
Differing Perspectives))
((PKG)) GUN CARRYING PROFESSOR
((Banner: Finding Common Ground))
((Reporter/Camera: Deepak Dobhal))
((Map: Ashland, Wisconsin))
((Main character: 1 female))
((Sub characters: 2 females; 2 males))
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
My views on guns are complicated. I recognize how
powerful and potentially destructive they are. I've had family
members killed, self-inflicted, by suicide.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
But I also am a gun owner. We own five or six guns, mostly
rifles, shotgun hunting rifles, but we also have a handgun in
our gun safe. On the other hand, I know the research on
gun ownership. The likelihood of victimization is first and
foremost rooted in the home. You're much more likely to
harm yourself or others with a gun than you are to ever use
one in self-defense.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
We are going to the gun range in town. And this is the place
where a couple years ago I was on the trap team.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
I met someone in town who shoots guns. Sent him a
message to see if he was free and he is. So, he's meeting
us there.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud & Man))
I can't actually arm at work, so.
Oh, did you come from work?
Yeah. I was up this morning.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
There's this really simplistic way of thinking about guns
often, which is people are anti-gun or they're pro-gun.
We like to imagine that this is a simple phenomenon in the
culture that you own a gun. And so, you have all of these
different attitudes and you must have these different ideas.
And that just isn't true.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Well, I'm always fast though. That's pretty quick.
((NATS))
((Man))
I'm used to firearms. I've been relatively well trained with
them and I've been shooting them all my life. I carry a
concealed weapon permit for both Wisconsin and
Minnesota.
((NATS))
((Man))
I have no issues with whatever the majority of people want to
regulate as long as they don't want to say, I don't have a
right to. If they say, you have a right to, but you have to do
this, yeah, okay, sure, no problem. Guns are as dangerous
as cars. I would be fine with regulating them like a car. You
have a license, you have training, you have to pass a test
and you have to recertify. I personally don't have an issue.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
That's what I agree with. I mean, you know, when I said that
my views on guns are complicated. I think they need to be
harder to get a hold of. I mean, our issue with gun violence
is that guns are so easy for anyone to get a hold of. And the
people who I feel totally comfortable owning guns and
carrying them or whatever, go for it. Good. I want it. I want
to know you're carrying, you know. But not Joe Schmo, who
could just pick one up anywhere.
((NATS))
((Man))
This is a DPMS model AR-10. It currently has a 10-round
magazine in it. It is capable of 30 and 50-round magazines.
((NATS))
((Man))
Safety off. Shot. No, I did hit it.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
The best part was shooting a shotgun. I don't like AR-15s.
Personally, I don't enjoy shooting them. I'm not into long-
range tactical precision shooting. I don't, it's not a hobby of
mine. And I also, you know, I have a lot of mixed feelings
about even putting an AR-15 on video.
For a lot of people who have experienced mass shootings,
an AR is an emblem of everything that's wrong with gun
culture. And I totally understand that. We live in different
realities, you know. If you've been affected by gun violence,
your reality about what guns are is one thing. And if you've
never been affected, you can kind of blithely go on with your
life never really confronting that.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Prior to 2008, when I started researching guns, I never really
thought about my vulnerability. I never thought of myself as
someone who needed to carry a gun in self-defense. But as
I started interviewing people and reading books from the
concealed carry worldview and watching media on these
ideas, I started to develop a fear of crime that I'd never had
before. And so, there were times during this research, when
I would wake up in the middle of the night with my heart
racing, thinking I had heard something. And because I didn't
have a gun available, I thought there's nothing I can do. I'm
completely vulnerable and so are my kids and what am I
doing?
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
I can easily identify with people who say that there is a risk
that there could be danger and so, carrying a gun makes
sense. I understand that worldview now in a way that I
never did before. I still think though, with my familiarity with
the research, that the risk is greater that a gun will be used
to harm even the gun-owner than it will ever be used in self-
defense. I have these conflicting views in myself. I would
like not to have to carry a gun in public and I want to do
whatever I can to help transform society, transform our
politics, so that doesn't feel like an inevitability.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Thank you all for coming. I really agree with the sentiments
that were expressed about the importance of talking about
issues like this at the community level. Getting offline, off
social media and having face-to-face conversations is one of
the healthiest things we can do. So tonight, we're going to
talk about gun violence, a topic that is more pressing today
than it was when I started my research.
((NATS))
((Elizabeth Holland, Member, Up North Engaged))
We have to figure out a way to have a dialogue and having
somebody like Angela, who is a scholar in this subject, but
who is also herself is a gun owner, she is kind of a presence
already somewhat in the middle so that both sides have trust
and respect for her and that kind of helps to start the
dialogue.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
Guns are unique in their ability to provoke intense emotions
and very little productive conversation across different
perspectives. And this hit home for me. My book had just
come out. And I was back home in Austin and I was at my
sister house and my mom was there. And they started this
debate about concealed carry and they're like screaming at
each other. I'm standing there as someone who just wrote a
book about this and not once did anyone say like, well,
actually is anything we're saying true? Do you know
anything about this topic? And of course, I'm a little sister
and the daughter so, like, probably that had something to do
with it. But they weren't interested at all in the facts. As
soon as I started talking about the facts, they don't even
want to have the conversation anymore.
Who benefits when we won't even talk to each other about
serious issues? When we're afraid, when we're either afraid
of gun owners and guns or that we're afraid that the
government's going to take our guns. Who benefits when
we're afraid of crime? And who is benefiting from this
current political climate where we're losing the ability to talk
to each other about difficult issues? Are we benefiting? The
clear answer is no. And that's something we all have in
common.
I want us to be on one team. Right? Like I'm thinking about
this on the community level. And for me, that's what
democracy is supposed to be about, not get the NRA
[National Rifle Association] involved in our conversation so
we can't even talk or any other lobby organization. I mean,
I'm picking on them because of this topic. But the Gifford’s
gun lobby groups have been as problematic. Bloomberg’s
groups are not helpful. We need to do this work to a great
extent.
((Vox Pop))
Why don't we confiscate cars from crazy people? Why do
we only confiscate guns from crazy people?
Got to be some regulation, stop somewhere.
I own an AR 15. I won't get into why, other than 38 years in
the army. It's what I'm familiar with. It's not at home loaded
right now.
I have a huge fear of somebody has a weapon of mass
destruction.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
When you focus just on the political level or the gun lobby
level, people are very entrenched in their positions. They're
either pro-gun adamantly or they are anti-gun adamantly and
nuance gets completely lost. But when you start to open the
door for conversation and there's a sense of trust that I'm not
here to take away your guns, I just want to talk about are
there possibilities for reducing gun violence, then people
start to reveal their complexity.
((Vox Pop)
And I'm not opposed to what you were talking about…..
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Northland College, Ashland,
Wisconsin))
At the meeting, there was one man who described how he
owns an AR-15 because that gun style came up in the
discussion and he approached me after the meeting and we
talked a bit. And one of the things that came from that
conversation was his willingness to admit that he has
ambivalence about some of our gun policies.
Guns take on a different meaning when you have to kind of
recognize that they're not just one thing. Gun ownership is
about identity. It's about emotions. And that, in this
complexity, we need to be willing to engage rationally so that
we don't just stick with these very tiresome pro-gun, anti-gun
views and instead, get to a better place.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Professor, Northland College))
We could become much worse than we are today or we
could become much better than we are today. I mean, who
would have imagined the 15 years ago, that kindergarteners
would be learning active shooter drills by learning nursery
rhymes about duck and cover from a shooter. It's becoming
so normal already.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Northland College, Ashland,
Wisconsin))
The worst thing that could happen is that we give up any
hope at all that there's change that's possible and we just
naturalize gun violence like we naturalize all kinds of
violence.
((NATS))
((Angela Stroud, Northland College, Ashland,
Wisconsin))
So, the worst fear is that we just assume this is just who we
are as people.
((MUSIC/NATS))
ANIMATED PROMO ((VO/NAT/SOT))
((Banner:
Next time on
Americans and Guns
((SOT))
When I hear about these atrocities, when the mass
shootings, you know, Parkland, Dayton, El Paso, and I hear
the backlash from the media and from politicians, saying that
if we had less guns, if people didn’t have guns, they wouldn’t
be able to do things like this, I have to answer that the
opposite is true.
((Banner:
Next time on
Americans and Guns
TEASE ((VO/NAT))
Coming up…..
((Banner))
A Buddhist View
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The actions we should take is free speech, use the speech
freely. And that's a great thing about our democracy.
There's freedom of assembly. There's freedom of speech.
BREAK ONE
BUMP IN ((ANIM))
BLOCK B
((Banner: Faith))
((PKG)) FAITH / BUDDHISM
((Banner: Buddhism))
((Reporter/Camera: Aaron Fedor))
((Producer: Kathleen McLaughlin))
((Map: Woodstock, New York))
((Main character: 1 male))
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
Buddhism is a way of educating yourself to actually find
happiness and terminate suffering. And it's 2,600 years old
and it has all kinds of educational methodologies including
meditation and scientific investigation of reality. It’s based
on the discovery of Buddha that reality enables human
beings to become truly free of suffering.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The Buddhist approach is best articulated in the world today
by His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. And that is, first of all,
violence is out and war is out and conflict and disagreement
is settled by dialogue.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
This is a graphic novel that I did with several friends. It's
about the Dalai Lama and this is a painting of the Dalai
Lama and behind him, the seat of government in Tibet, the
Potala. And here in '71, I met him. I was on a fellowship
from Harvard and then he says, "Oh, here comes my monk.
Oh, whoops. What happened to his robes?"
World leaders, who have used nonviolence, have been
extraordinarily successful, although the way we are taught
history because of the high level of militarization of our
society, we kind of ignore those examples. But Gandhi was
a nonviolent leader. Martin Luther King was a nonviolent
leader, in modern period. Many in ancient period. Jesus,
you know, was a nonviolent leader.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
So, the main way of learning to do nonviolence for the
individual is to learn to control their own violent reactions,
which doesn't mean become a doormat. It just means learn
to deal with injury directed toward them in a more practical
way. We learned to develop patience by restraining our
reactivity in anger. So, if we learn to do that internally, then
we can learn not to respond to violence. This is the kind of
training, for example, in America today that the police need
to be trained in. How to respond when someone says, "Hey,
pig," or something, not to then hammer them with a stick and
break their head or kill them even.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The best way to overcome anger, it's a long, hard job, I can
say. I had quite a hot temper, kind of still do, but, so it is, I
know how hard it is. But one of the things that helps you
overcome it with experience is you notice that it always
causes more trouble than it solves. Because when I want to
lose my temper, when I want to get all obsessed with
something, I kind of say, "Well, I can do it next life. Well, I
don't want to really do something harmful because it'll come
after me in the future. There'll be no escaping of the
consequences of that doing.” And so, I want to become
enlightened, to be really happy and to help others be happy.
That's what I want and I'm going to do it and that has
changed my life.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
The actions we should take is free speech, use speech
freely. And that's a great thing about our democracy.
There's freedom of assembly. There's freedom of speech.
A policeman is supposed to be the servant of the people.
The word for policemen in Sanskrit is Rajapurusha, meaning
the king's man and a king is supposed to be serving the
subjects, not dominating them. This is, we know, there are
different styles of kingship and a good theories of kingship
like ancient Chinese one about the emperor, ancient Indian
one, and actually somewhere in even the idea of a good
Christian king, there's the idea not of divine right but an idea
of the king's job is to work for them. And the president is not
the boss of everybody. He's the servant of everybody.
That's the whole point of being a ruler, is you are the
servant. "Heavy lies the head that wears the crown," said
Henry IV in Shakespeare's play.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
That’s the Buddha's teaching, "What goes around, comes
around." That's what karma means. And it's a biological
teaching. And so, Mother Nature is showing us how we
must stop being violent against her and against each other
and then we'll all be happy. Buddhism wants everyone to be
happy. If you are violent and harm others or yourself or
nature, you will not be happy. Therefore, be nonviolent.
((NATS))
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
At this moment, when we are rising up in the United States
of America about the violence committed against the Black
people, it's very important that those who are rising up in
protest remember that violence is what they are against.
((Robert A.F. Thurman, Professor Emeritus, Columbia
University))
I'm extremely hopeful because in the overall view of history,
nonviolence has always been more powerful than violence.
It's very important not to lose hope and realize that it is your
right as a human to be happy, have a good time, sing some
songs and no one has a right to prevent you from doing that.
And if you keep doing that, sooner or later, other people will
join you in the choir. And that happiness is infectious and
that's the way to win. Joyful protest, joyful resistance, that's
what it is.
((NATS))
TEASE ((VO/NAT))
Coming up…..
((Banner))
Dance in Virtual Space
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I must say the dancers have been energized and excited by
working in this new medium of little squares.
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BUMP IN ((ANIM))
BLOCK C
((PKG)) COVID / VIRTUAL DANCE
((Banner: The Laptop as Stage))
((Reporter/Producer: Faiza Elmasry))
((Camera: Diane Coburn Burning))
((Editor: Lisa Vohra))
((Map: Washington DC))
((Main characters: 1 female))
((NATS))
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
And I will keep admitting everybody as we go as well, being
mute enough. So, I’ll face you, we start and.....ribs, elbow,
ta ra ta ta, knee knee.
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I’m Diane Coburn Burning, Founder and Artistic Director of
Chamber Dance Project.
((NATS: Diane Coburn Burning))
Cha-cha-chu.
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
Chamber Dance Project is a contemporary ballet company
based in Washington DC and we work entirely with live
music. We’re usually on the stage but of late, we’re also
online virtually a lot.
((NATS: Diane Coburn Burning))
I’d just like to thank all the dancers for being willing to do
this. Alright, Troy, whenever they’re ready.
((NATS))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I think it was Winston Churchill that said, “Don’t waste a
good crisis.” And we’ve been going forward boldly and
positively. We have something that is our mantra, ‘there will
be a beyond.’ But in the meantime, let’s see what we can do
now. Let’s not put off. And so, we’ve embraced this. And I
think to our credit, people have embraced us doing this and
that makes all the difference.
((MUSIC/NATS: Dancing))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I must say the dancers have been energized and excited by
working in this new medium
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
of little squares, on a screen. And, if I sound a bit surprised,
I am. And as one dancer said, “Diane, I’m not so sure, two
months ago or three months ago, we would have been all so
also open for it.” But I think it’s the chance to create, to
move, even though in their household spaces.
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
And also be together. If that sounds strange, I’m sure it is to
them, until you long for it.
((MUSIC/NATS))
((Courtesy: Chamber Dance Project))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
I started Chamber Dance Project upon the conviction that
dance should be a collaboration between dancers and
musicians, playing live on stage and performing together.
Also, that working in smaller spaces, smaller theaters, would
heighten the experience for the audience. And that sharing
the process along the way would also deepen that
experience and understanding before the audience sees the
final ballet.
((NATS: Diane Coburn Burning -- voice only while
Christian is listening))
Try to keep your palms in the same position and switch the
legs. Stay as low as you can to wiggle the arms, hands
down and slide the legs.
((MUSIC/NATS))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
Bill asked, ‘how do you allow your bodies to feel, learn,
memorize this range of motion?’ Anyone want to take that
one?
((Christian Denice, Dancer from California))
We can still see it and we can understand it and feel it. And
I think that’s something that’s so beautiful about this time
where it feels like we’re all kind of dealing with different
amounts of loss and levels of either losing jobs or
opportunities. But, you know, dance is always going to be
rooted in us.
((MUSIC/NATS))
((Diane Coburn Burning, Chamber Dance Project))
So, we’re settling for the screen and now we’re trying to, you
know, blow up that screen with energy and excitement. It’s a
way for us to create and connect which is what we’re known
for. So, I think the virtual aspect will be part of something we
do going forward. Do we want to be back on stage? You
bet. And we will be.
((MUSIC/NATS: Christian Dancing))
CLOSING ((ANIM))
voanews.com/connect
BREAK THREE
BUMP IN ((ANIM))
SHOW ENDS
